I hate to tell you this but corperate tax rates are lower now than they have been historically and as for the unions...union wages make up the smallest percentage of company revenue in the history of unions right now. The unions and the tax system have given all the ground they need to. Its time for companies and corperations to quit whining.

 

No offense but I honestly don't give a shit who is on what side.

I lived through his Presidency, and am still living through what it did to the country.

Well there's one bit of it. Let's not forget all of the jobs that went away overseas during his Presidency either or things of that nature.

Shhh! No logic and truth allowed in this thread!

 

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Sorry. I live by the 'if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it' philosophy.

 

I can and did explain it simply.

Because of Bush, the recession hit my area almost a decade before it hit the rest of the country.

Because of Bush, our districts are losing money thanks to his "No Child Left Behind" bullshit.

Because of Bush, we have the Patriot Act.

Because of Bush, Iraq has been completely unnecessarily fucked up, even moreso than it was before.

Because of Bush, working class people got taxed to death while the rich barely got taxed at all.

Because of Bush, corporations were allowed to do whatever the hell they want and helped with moving jobs overseas.

Because of Bush, things like Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid are going to cripple this country.

Because of Bush, our financial industry went unregulated and eventually crashed our entire economy.

I could go on, and on, and on.

 

To know who the worst president was I would need to know more about the history of every president than I do. Also, we should distinguish between an incompetent president and one whose policies we disapprove of. I strongly regret the presidency of Ronald Reagan, but he was successful in turning the United States to the right. I love Jimmy Carter, but if he had been successful the presidency of Ronald Reagan would never have happened.

George W. Bush inherited peace and prosperity from Bill Clinton. He turned a budget surplus into yearly deficits by cutting taxes. By one calculation, 41 percent of the tax cuts went to the richest one percent. The median income adjusted for inflation declined. Fewer jobs were created every year than had been since at least the presidency of Harry Truman. W. started two expensive and avoidable wars he could not win.

I believe he was not invited to the Republican Convention of 2008, but I am not sure. Can anyone tell me if he attended?

W. was incompetent, and I disapproved of his policies. I approve of President Obama's policies, but I have to admit that he has not been very competent. I wanted a second Franklin Roosevelt. That was a tall order, but I did not get one. Good intentions are not good enough.

 

We could argue your points into eight or nine forum pages, as usual, and end up still disagreeing, as usual. You are doing your quantization trick again: chopping history up into four year blocks, and claiming that each block starts anew and inherits either peace-and-plenty or a big old mess from the previous block.

For instance. You say Clinton handed a nice big block of peace-and-plenty to 'W'. Baller's been ranting about how Bush put his region of the country into depression eight years early. I do not know where Baller is from, but could it perhaps be a midwest industrial area? If so, why is he blaming Bush? Why isn't he blaming one of the Rhodes Scholar's biggest accomplishments: NAFTA? No doubt Baller thinks Bush's crappy foreign policy brought the Twin Towers down and mired us in a bunch of unconstitutional wars. I don't see anyone saying that Clinton's block of peace-and-plenty gave us the first towers attack in 1993, and the U.S.S. Cole, and an ascendant Al Qaeda.

History cannot be chopped neatly into Rice Krispie squares and handed to incoming presidents, so I don't think I will ever agree with you.

But all of that is beside the point of the poll.

The point of the poll is that we need someone to blame, and the official narrative says that Obama is off the list of prospects.

It wouldn't occur to Baller, or anyone else, to blame Clinton for NAFTA or Osama bin Laden. Because Clinton was a great president. Thus sayeth the official narrative.

It wouldn't occur to anyone on this board to blame the 2008 financial crisis on the dilution/revocation of Glass Steagal, or the Communities Reinvestment Act, or Franklyn Raynes, or Jim Johnson, or Barney Frank, or Chris Dodd, or all the other Friends of Angelo.

None of that matters, because Bush ruined the economy and helped his rich friends who spend all day polishing their pinkie rings and watching Fox News.

Thus sayeth the official narrative.

The point of the poll is that we need someone to blame. And the only correct person to blame is George Bush.

To this very day.

Funny thing about blame, though.

If George W. Bush is still to blame for what is happening today, and President Obama is responsible for absolutely nothing and can be blamed for absolutely nothing, and is powerless to do anything about it and can't fix anything, AT ALL, then.....

Who has the power?

Who is running things, to this very day? Who is driving this country and setting its policies?

My, my. Lordy, lordy. George W. Bush might be the most incompetent man ever to have lived. How, then, shall we explain his tenacious influence over the nation, from behind the curtain, and his talent for spoiling the performance of the brilliant Wizard of Oz, and making the Greatest President Who Has Ever Lived look like a complete schmuck? The meek shall inherit the earth?

 

Oh.


So things have NOT improved because Obama is President.....but they HAVE improved because the Republicans control the House.

Interesting theory......improved non-improvement.......

 

The unemployment rate has gone down, but it was going down before the last election. The Republicans stand in the way of what is needed to reduce unemployment faster. They complain about unemployment, but really they are gloating. In their hearts they think the unemployed are losers who deserve their predicament.

 

I supported NAFTA at the time, but it was an obvious mistake. That noise you hear in the background is the giant sucking sound Ross Perot warned us about of jobs leaving the United States.

 

Clinton and Bush could have done more to prevent 9/11. Bush is the one who made the mistakes of starting too pointless and expensive wars while cutting taxes. Those tax cuts did not help the economy. They did turn the Clinton budget surplus into a yearly deficit.

 

I have already acknowledged that Obama is incompetent. Right after his inauguration his approval rating was about 66 percent, and his disapproval rating was less than 20 percent. That was the time to raise taxes on the rich, and I mean really raise them. The additional tax revenue would have reduced the deficit, and given the government more money for stimulus spending and federal work projects. These would have reduced unemployment, and enabled the Democrats to increase their majorities in both houses of Congress. This, in turn would have have given Obama more power to fight the Great Recession.

Instead, Obama has tried to compromise with those who hate him, and who want him to fail so badly they want the country to fail. Obama loses on issues where he has public opinion on his side.

I want someone with Franklin Roosevelt's ability to out think and out maneuver the Republicans, and to defeat them again and again. That is not Obama.

 

Sorry, but NO clarise. You aren't fucking from here. You can talk about NAFTA all you god damn want but what made those jobs go away was policies and things started around the 50s and continued by Reagan and then Bush. Outsiders need to shut up cus you don't know a fucking thing about it. And nope.. the Midwest took OUR jobs.

It's pretty fucking pathetic to need to paint your opponent as some liberal moron just because what he says goes against your fucked in the head party line.

Bush was incompetent but his cronies weren't. Karl Rove should be in jail, as should Dick Cheney and many others. Also, I never even said he was incompetent. His party-line bullshit, whether it was his idea or not, is what fucking SANK this country.

 

Hmm... Is it true that the Iraq / Afghan war is the longest in United States history?

 

Umm... Is it true that Dick Cheney shot a man in a tree thinking he was a turkey? D'oh!

*not_secure_link*i.imgur.com/9WJpA.jpg

 

I'm thinking Viet Nam was much longer. It took a Republican president to end it.

 

Oh, I was asking because I honestly didn't know... Heard someone say Iraq was longer, so Vietnam was actually longer, huh?

 

We been over this before. Obama has the record for the longest and deepest unemployment disaster in the history of the U.S. Never before his presidency was it thought to be necessary to pay almost 2 years of unemployment to workers. Never before has the unemployment funding system been in such horrible shape. All of the economic gains of the first quarter are GONE and job creation of any kind is all but non existent. You cannot blame publicans for Obama's mess.This is his and his alone.

 

Then where did they go? They sure aren't here anymore. The tax rates here in Illinois are driving businesses to Indiana and Wisconsin.

 

Shooter thinks this entire thread is a way to divert attention from Obama's record as President;

"Yeah, Obama aint' the greatest, but lets look at W and throw some more shit on his reputation; then perhaps no one will notice how fucked up things are with Obama in the white house.

Ah well, I still expect he'll be president for another 4 years, and the alternative isn't that exciting either.

*shooter runs off to get his time travel gear in order*